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Was Goku vs Superman a fair call?

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Was Goku vs Superman a fair call?

Post by Sora on Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:16 am

I may be a little late on this, but I was watching the Goku vs. Superman Death Battle tonight, I don't think the match was a fair call and there are several reasons.

As a long time comic book fan. (It was something I was brought up with) I've always like to read Superman Comics, while he's not my favorite hero (That belongs to the Armored Avenger) he certainly is one that I like a lot and respect as an American Icon. Death Battle did a terrible job representing Superman in his true light, considering all things Cannon and Non-Cannon, including Movies, and Comic Books, we can safely say that Superman is NOT immortal, the fact that he was able to lift 200 Quintilian tons in All Star Superman was not accompanied by the fact that Absorbing too much yellow Sun radiation ultimately lead to his demise. Instead they decided to include Superman One Million, and while I think that was a great addition to a Superman Mythos, it's not the true Superman and he doesn't belong to Earth One. DC One Million is a completely alternate Universe of what if's that don't affect the Main universe in any way shape or form. While I did say that we would be considering things Cannon and Non-Cannon, Superman One Million is not in any way related to the Kal-El of Earth One and should NOT be considered! Why do I say that we should not consider Alternate Universe Supermen? Because they have different powers than the Original, and because it wouldn't be Fair to Goku who only has ONE incarnation. Back to the topic of All Star Superman, while the Sun is his greatest Ally, it can also be his Greatest Enemy! So with that being said we know that Superman can only increase his abilities and powers to a certain extent before meeting an End.

Now let's look at some of Superman's Feats: He was able to make it to the Sun while fighting Wonder Woman in 2 minutes, which is roughly 3 times the speed of light, He was able to lift 200 Quintillion Pounds in All Star Superman, has survived a Super Nova, and Has defeated Darkseid a multitude of times. All of these are great feats that we can count, Though I don't see how much someone can lift truly affects the out come of a fight, your lifting strength doesn't affect the Damage your attacks deal.

On the other side of the coin we have Goku, the Hope of the Universe. Goku has quite the similar origin to Superman as the last child of another Planet who would one day become Earth's Savior. Goku has striven his entire life to be a martial arts master as well as the strongest fighter there is. Counting all things Cannon and Not Cannon we can assess that with the help of Four other Super Saiyans he can fight on the level of a God, and not just any God, but the God of destruction Bills, who destroyed Galaxies in his spare time. Now logically speaking a character of lesser power can not accomplish feats of strength greater than those of a stronger Character, that said In his Super Saiyan Form Goku defeated Frieza who had the power to destroy and entire Planet within 5 minutes of a blast. He also defeated Broly and attained levels higher than Broly's power who destroyed the south Galaxy single handedly. If we assume that because he is stronger he harbors more Ki energy in his body than his opponents then we can easily come to the conclusion that Goku can produce feats of strength that are the same caliber as his lesser enemies. This would mean that By being stronger than Frieza he can destroy a planet and by Being Stronger than Broly and equal to Bills he can destroy an entire Galaxy with his power. What's More is that Goku can ONLY GET STRONGER the more he his Hurt, unlike Superman who has a Source of energy outside of his body, Goku's source of power comes from within and as a saiyan warrior whenever he is beaten down he stands even stronger, this could lead to him having Limitless potential, something Superman would lack at this point.


Considering all the facts it really boils down to this: Goku's power can only go higher with each beating, while Superman has to limit himself or die by his own Sword. The winner would be Goku.

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Re: Was Goku vs Superman a fair call?

Post by This Guy Right here on Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:42 am

I agree, compeletly. You brought this down to a science and included the pro's and con's better then DB did in my opinion.
Me and Cana has a conversation once about this.
They compared superman to a god essentially, and left out a lot of key factors to goku. It was said more then once, that a SJJ4 Goku's could defy the Dragonballs. And for those of you who want to say SJJ4 goku couldn't be established and maintained by goku, in a training session with the kids he maintained it for a rather long time. About 3-4 days.

Sora completely went in depth and pointed out all the flaws.

You have earned the respect of Nerds everywhere.

*a fuck was given today*

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Re: Was Goku vs Superman a fair call?

Post by Ryze on Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:16 am

The DB staff must have been Uber Superman fans.

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Re: Was Goku vs Superman a fair call?

Post by Koalaman108 on Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:09 am

Sora, but I completely disagree.
If we go non canon, as you have with Broly, we can look at 'Future Superman'(AKA Superman Prime), who can absorb a limitless supply of the sun's energy. At this point, Goku stands absolutely no chance, as Superman's power is limitless.
If we look at canon, the strongest form Goku can reach is SSJ3, because SSJG requires the help of others and is therefore not allowed. Goku in Super Saiyan 3 form has a very limited pool of Ki energy, while Superman has the sun, which isn't going away any time soon, and which Goku will NEVER destroy.

I love Goku, and I love Dragon Ball, far more than I love comic books, but even I have to admit that Superman is superior to Goku.

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Re: Was Goku vs Superman a fair call?

Post by Ryze on Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:08 pm

Koalaman108 wrote:Sora, but I completely disagree.
If we go non canon, as you have with Broly, we can look at 'Future Superman'(AKA Superman Prime), who can absorb a limitless supply of the sun's energy. At this point, Goku stands absolutely no chance, as Superman's power is limitless.
If we look at canon, the strongest form Goku can reach is SSJ3, because SSJG requires the help of others and is therefore not allowed. Goku in Super Saiyan 3 form has a very limited pool of Ki energy, while Superman has the sun, which isn't going away any time soon, and which Goku will NEVER destroy.

I love Goku, and I love Dragon Ball, far more than I love comic books, but even I have to admit that Superman is superior to Goku.

Goku would never blow up the sun, true, but Superman would never blow up the earth. How the hell are you going to say Goku would blow up the Kryptonite to help Superman fight harder, yet they misrepresnt Superman by actually thinking he would blow up the Earth to defeat an opponent.

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Re: Was Goku vs Superman a fair call?

Post by Sora on Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:13 pm

As I mentioned Superman of the Future timeline or Superman One million (They are one in the same) are a different character with a different power set altogether, the Battle in question was not "Supermen of all the DC universes vs. Goku" it was Superman (Presumably of Earth One considering all of Earth One Superman's feats were counted), Also I read in chat about how DBZ has alternate histories, yes it does have alternate histories but they all impact the main story line and even throughout these Alternate histories, Goku is one character and the main storyline goku is unaffected by these alternate histories, therefor that is an invalid argument. I see how you want to include Superman One Million into the argument since he is Non Canon and we decided to include both, but the fact remains that he is Canon to the DC One Million universe, is a different Character, and has a different power set, similarly to Superman Prime of Earth prime, being stronger than Earth One Earth Two and Earth Three Supermen, but still not being the main incarnation. The rule of thumb is this: If they can show up side by side, Supermen of other universes are different beings. You've never seen Goku show up side by side with Goku of the 7th universe (The only universe we know has a Goku to begin with.) Therefor we can safely and soundly assume that there is only one Goku and all of the Movies and other Non-Canon material is based off of that Single Goku, unlike Superman One Million, Superman of Earth Two, or Ultraman. Furthermore, you fail to consider that as SSJ God he has the same destructive power as Bills, who made SSJ3 look like child's play by easily defeating Goku with a flick of the finger. So as equals we must assume that Goku can destroy Galaxies, (Which we assume anyway because he defeated Broly.) which are MUCH bigger than the Yellow sun that gives Superman his power. Furthermore! Goku's Spirit Bomb contains energy from every living thing he can gather it from, I believe when he fought Frieza he gathered energy from only the remaining life on Namek which was enough itself to nearly decimate Namek before he became a Super Saiyan. When he fought Buu the Super Spirit bomb collected energy from all the life on earth and Destroyed a Galaxy buster level character. And In GT he created a universal Spirit Bomb with life from every being in the Universe, Correct me if I'm wrong, but the universe is bigger than the sun right? You're looking at this in a rather unfair way you gave no actual evidence as to why superman could beat goku and only mentioned a Different Universe Character who is NOT Superman and is NOT the same Character with the same power set and weaknesses, rather a different entity altogether.

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Re: Was Goku vs Superman a fair call?

Post by Ryze on Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:19 pm

Yeah, what Sora said! (lol unoriginality)

But seriously. It is a one on one fight between Goku and Superman, not a Fight between Goku and a Superman with every other different Superman character's powers. That's bullshit

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Re: Was Goku vs Superman a fair call?

Post by Koalaman108 on Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:00 pm

Sora, the Spirit bomb will have absolutely no effect on Superman, as it can only hurt those who are impure. That's the reason Gohan was able to deflect it.
And again, SSJG is not allowed in this fight, as it requires outside help. Neither are Senzu Beans allowed, as they require outside help (Korin has to give them to Goku prior to the fight, which equals preperation).
Also, just because 2 Goku's have not appeared side by side, does not mean they cannot. As we saw in the Android Saga, 2 Trunks' from 2 alternate histories were coexisting in the same period of time, but were not the same person.
The powers and abilities of Future Trunks are vastly different from the Trunks that eventually came to be from the timeline DB follows.
Also, and I can't stress this enough. YOU CANNOT ASSUME GOKU CAN ACHIEVE THE FEATS OF LESSER CHARACTERS, YOU JUST CAN'T.
Every character has different techniques and ways of accessing and controlling Ki. Broly for example, had an apparently unlimited supply of Ki, while Goku does not, therefore, it would make sense that Broly could destroy a galaxy while Goku could not.
You want another example? Guldo can stop time, and Goku can't.
Guldo was weaker than Raditz....
I could go on if I wanted to, but I REALLY don't want to.


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Re: Was Goku vs Superman a fair call?

Post by Sora on Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:39 pm

Goku achieved SSJG alone the second time, furthermore, LOGICALLY SPEAKING a stronger character with more energy and power can accomplish the same feats as a lesser character, furthermore Superman is impure as he when exposed to red kryptonite tried to take over the earth so a Spirit Bomb WOULD HIT HIM, next, Goku can absorb spirit bombs and use them to power up his dragon fist. As for removing outside Sources like Senzu Beans, if we are going to take one outside Source from a character then it would be fair to take all outside sources from both sides, and Superman's power itself is an outside source so being fair, Goku wins either way


Last edited by Sora on Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Was Goku vs Superman a fair call?

Post by This Guy Right here on Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:18 pm

I would like to clarify, Goku can achieve SSJG on his own. He did so once and it killed him after a short time...But he did indeed do it.

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Re: Was Goku vs Superman a fair call?

Post by Ryze on Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:56 pm

Vetrillion wrote:I would like to clarify, Goku can achieve SSJG on his own. He did so once and it killed him after a short time...But he did indeed do it.

The **** are you talking about?

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Re: Was Goku vs Superman a fair call?

Post by Sora on Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:58 pm

Koalaman108 wrote:Guldo can stop time, and Goku can't.

I'm fairly Certain that a signature Move is Different from possessing enough energy to destroy something.

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Re: Was Goku vs Superman a fair call?

Post by Ryze on Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:45 am

"As Goku struggles against Bills' attack, he is reminded that the Super Saiyan God form's time limit had apparently run out. Goku reveals he had not noticed this, because as he fought he apparently absorbed that realm of power into his body. Due to this, even after returning to normal, Goku's power saw relatively no decrease. "

Do with that what you will

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Re: Was Goku vs Superman a fair call?

Post by Koalaman108 on Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:16 am

WOULD YOU STOP SPOILING THE MOVIE, I HAVEN'T SEEN IT YET.
SSJG is irrelevent to this conversation, because at the time this Death Battle was made, SSJG was not yet out.
Therefore, we must consider Goku's strongest for either Super Saiyan 4 (non-canon) or Super Saiyan 3.

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Re: Was Goku vs Superman a fair call?

Post by Ryze on Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:25 am

Koalaman108 wrote:WOULD YOU STOP SPOILING THE MOVIE, I HAVEN'T SEEN IT YET.
SSJG is irrelevent to this conversation, because at the time this Death Battle was made, SSJG was not yet out.
Therefore, we must consider Goku's strongest for either Super Saiyan 4 (non-canon) or Super Saiyan 3.

That's the problem. You can't anymore. In Deathbattle, every power that is canon must be considered. SSJG is canon, and needs to be factored in now. Also, as far as I'm concerned, GT happened, but it does NOT exist in the Dragonball universe.

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Re: Was Goku vs Superman a fair call?

Post by Ryze on Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:34 am

Oh, also, to counter your Argument that Battle of Gods was not known during the making of this deathbattle, consider this. The GvSM DB was announced on September 20th, 2012 at the end of Pikachu Versus Blanka. Read this statement.

"The global phenomenon Dragon Ball is being made into a movie using Toei Animation’s latest technology, consistently realized as a Toriyama work, with the original author Akira Toriyama himself deeply involved from the script stage for the first time. An episode from between the animation series “Z” and “GT”, or in other words from the blank decade between the end of the battle with Majin Buu in chapter 517 of the manga and chapter 518, will be depicted for the first time.
Such well-known and charming characters as Krillin, Piccolo, and Vegeta will all make an appearance. A new story in the official history of Dragon Ball is born, neither a spin-off nor a side-story, one that can be enjoyed by both children and parents, manga fans and anime fans."
— Toei Animation's Press Release for the upcoming film - July 17, 2012[6]

July 17th is alot sooner then september 20th, and way sooner then when this Death Battle came out.

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Re: Was Goku vs Superman a fair call?

Post by Koalaman108 on Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:40 am

Ryze wrote:
That's the problem. You can't anymore. In Deathbattle, every power that is canon must be considered. SSJG is canon, and needs to be factored in now. Also, as far as I'm concerned, GT happened, but it does NOT exist in the Dragonball universe.
The question asked was whether death battle made the fair choice, meaning that at the time the video was made, did the right person win.
That means we must only consider factors which existed at the time of the video.

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Re: Was Goku vs Superman a fair call?

Post by Ryze on Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:43 am

Koalaman108 wrote:
Ryze wrote:
That's the problem. You can't anymore. In Deathbattle, every power that is canon must be considered. SSJG is canon, and needs to be factored in now. Also, as far as I'm concerned, GT happened, but it does NOT exist in the Dragonball universe.
The question asked was whether death battle made the fair choice, meaning that at the time the video was made, did the right person win.
That means we must only consider factors which existed at the time of the video.

Ok so let's just ignore the fact that I just showed you proof that Gods was a thing before the deathbattle occured, which means they jumped to making the video too early. So the answer is no. It was not a fair call.

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Re: Was Goku vs Superman a fair call?

Post by Koalaman108 on Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:28 am

I'm gonna rejoin this argument only AFTER I have seen Battle of Gods. Tootles.

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Re: Was Goku vs Superman a fair call?

Post by Ryze on Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:39 pm

Koalaman108 wrote:I'm gonna rejoin this argument only AFTER I have seen Battle of Gods. Tootles.

I'm Professor Ryze and you just got Schooled.

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Re: Was Goku vs Superman a fair call?

Post by axle4222 on Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:31 am

brief sourse (not all of them just easiest ones i can get to:http://www.screwattack.com/news/death-battle-erred-goku-vs-supermanMan how many people to dislodge with my superior knowledge lets see..... alright for starters They only counted the Super man One if they didnt bring up a single one of the alternates triumphs ect. now for goku: He can achieve god mode on his own as demonstrated in Battle of the Gods when he was fighting off Bills blast triggered it and essencially went god mode for approx 4 seconds (when he was under intense pressure) Now I am not saying he can use this at will now to another part. Superman's strongest attack (canon non canon made up what u wish he could do) Infinate mass punch has the power of four supernovas (as im not completely sure lets say of 18 for the huge benefit of the doubt) It says in the legitimate manga Superman stays at just under light speed for that attack the entire time. Now for gokus defence against this 1. goku as a kid was faster than light as evidented by when mr. popo trained him with lightning strikes after demon king piccolo was defeated. now with death battles logic (using early feats for his entire strength which is complete and utter bull shit like using the power pole??? seriously wtf i facepalmed saying superman lovers) super saiyan-50 times faster than light super saiyan 2 100 times faster than light super saiyan 3 (officially released when goku first transformed it was only 4 times stronger than 2 so il give a benefit of the doubt its not stronger) 400 times the speed of light by that logic goku could get a drink make another sun take a dump poke supermans leg and dodge it all in the time it takes for him to strike goku. now for accelleration superman as someone said above said he absorbs sunlight indefinately BUT there is a limit to how much he can absorb over time while truely unlimited potential Goku's raw acceleration (over speed of light in an instant) to superman's speed of light in 30 seconds (from comic) essencially goku wins majorly in speed. Im getting tired of being right so let me finish this up: strength superman :planet busting (possible solar system to far fetch it)
Goku:Litterally the potencial to destroy entire galaxies if not the entire Universe (see links im about to put in) now Superman can survive a Super nova but go into a healing coma (comic) Goku literally took solar system busting attacks over and over again (Akira Toriyama statement) Now It has been proven that all of the inner planets would be incinerated immediately when the sun supernovas but the outer planets I have seen no proof of the sun destroying all of them thus Il stretch to say (Biggest stretch il give this time) Superman's durability is tied with goku's
overall goku would win Personally I dont believe in GT as canon Akira dosnt so SSJ4 dont exist (God is proven to be higher as Super vegito was considered at full power to be equal or higher than SSJ4 and Bills is approx 500 times stronger (again im underpowering yet again)

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